As they pass the seasonal quarter-pole being no-hit for the second time in two weeks, here’s a couple of positive developments regarding the Mariners’ offense. Hey, you know me — Mr. Sunshine on a Cloudy Day.
OF Mitch Haniger has come back from multiple injuries to near All-Star form, and OF Julio Rodriguez may rip up what’s left of minor league baseball.
Haniger, 30, is the near-term. Rodriguez, 20, is the far-term.
The question for general manager Jerry Dipoto: How quickly does he want to attempt to close the gap, via the July 30 trade deadline?
The question is relevant because, as the Mariners’ batting average slipped below the Mendoza Line as a team at .199 heading into Wednesday’s game with the Detroit Tigers, who suddenly have gone all Koufax and Drysdale on the Seattles, options are few for a fix.
Even if there were competent, mid-career position players available in trade — unlikely since nearly all of MLB is in a similar offensive crisis — there is little point in having them take away developmental time from young players, especially after the lost minor league season of 2020.
Remember, 2021 is No. 3 in the step-back seasons. How many more we are asked to indulge isn’t clear. But to abandon any part now is to make a bad situation worse.
With 12 players on the injured list, there really is only one move. I suggest it be counter-intuitive.
Near-ball is to keep the proven Haniger, seek competitive relevance in September and patience with Rodriguez as he moves up from Class A to AA to AAA. If Haniger stays and remains healthy, along with CF Kyle Lewis and LF Jarred Kelenic, Rodriguez’s only spot in a relevant September would be DH.
Far-ball is to trade Haniger, among MLB’s home run leaders with 12 entering Wednesday, at his apex value, for a quality, hard-throwing prospect who projects as a No. 3-4 starting pitcher.
Yes, a pitcher. They are the coin of the modern realm.
Finish the season with the wounded rotation and a lesser outfield, and give Rodriguez, the club’s No. 2 prospect and No. 5 in baseball according to MLB Pipeline, a full year in the minors, then start his service time clock in ’22 at 21.
The scenarios have developed because, ahead of Class A Everett’s game in Spokane Wednesday, Rodriguez had homered in four of the past five of the AquaSox’s first 13 games, and was hitting .327/.413/.727. Haniger has come back to play a superlative right field while hitting .263/.316/.556 after playing only 63 games in 2019 and none in 2020.
Rodriguez also has a shot to be an Olympian. He will play for the Dominican Republic in its qualifier tournament May 31 in Florida for the Summer Games in Tokyo in July.
If the DR advances to Japan, Rodriguez’s timetable for promotion might be delayed, although it’s already hard to say he should not move up to AA Arkansas right now.
“He’s tearing it up, which doesn’t surprise me at all,” manager Scott Servais said Sunday. “So, I’m sure at some point here in the near future, there will be the opportunity for him to move up when the time is right. Again, there are a lot of young players that are off to a great start. So, I’m really excited.”
Signed at 17, Rodriguez has lost developmental time to a broken wrist bone as well as the 2020 shutdown. And he didn’t hit well in winter ball against experienced pitching.
Still, the kid’s on a rocket to the bigs.
“He’s a dynamic talent,” Dipoto said. “There have been superstar players like Mike Trout, some of the great players of all time, who have made their way to the big leagues at a young age, and I won’t count that as impossible for Julio.
“I don’t want to surmise that’s likely to happen in 2021, but Julio is the kind of player that could easily move multiple levels in one season.”
Servais said J-Rod’s eagerness to learn is impressive.
“Knowing Julio and his personality, he’s very curious,” he said. “He asks a lot of questions. He takes it in. He wants to be great, and knows that all the knowledge that he can pick up from these older guys is really going to help him.
“It’s certainly played out in the early season, to the point where he can work himself through an at-bat and make adjustments, maybe understand this guy’s going try to throw me a bunch of sliders because I’m a big right-handed power hitter . . . it’s a huge experience for young players to go through that.”
Time remains for many things to happen prior to the trade deadline. Already, the Oakland A’s and Houston Astros, as expected, are starting to put daylight between themselves and the rest of the American League West. And the Mariners have little depth to deal with their magnitude of health travail.
But for 2022, the Mariners’ pipeline has a plausible candidate to fill well nearly every position-player vacancy, Already it has delivered LF Kelenic, CF Lewis, 1B Evan White and SS J.P. Crawford. When healthy, Ty France will succeed Kyle Seager at third, and well-regarded Cal Raleigh in AAA Tacoma will be the every-day catcher. That leaves only second base, where Dylan Moore’s bat seems to be coming around, and DH. Feel free to complain about White’s hitting.
So that leads to the notion of trading Haniger for a starting pitcher.
Humiliating as are the double no-nos, it’s a transitory development unworthy of bringing down the house. Adding to the rotation this summer that includes Marco Gonzales, Justin Dunn, Justus Sheffield and rookie Logan Gilbert, takes the pressure off having little choice but to accept erratic Yusei Kukuchi’s final contract year option of $13 million. Only if he masters consistency will it be worthwhile.
Trading a pro’s pro in the clubhouse such as Haniger would be a blow. But he’s probably said and done all that he can in terms of leadership, and he’s not exactly C-3PO when it comes to idle clubhouse chatter.
Given the number of pitching injuries, in Seattle as well as around baseball, teams need to stack the 97 mph guys like boxes in the cereal aisle in order to trot out five (or six) in working order. Haniger is the only “senior” eminence on the roster capable of prying one loose from a contending club in July — or even June, something Dipoto likes to do.
As with C Mike Zunino and Tampa Bay (he’s hitting .218 with 1o HRs and 20 RBI), Haniger rates a shot at the post-season after serving his time in Seattle since 2017. Good behavior still counts with the parole board.
And Seattle needs another front-line pitcher, because until MLB solves the game’s profound offensive decay, that’s what matters.
83 Comments
While as a Mariners fan I will hate to see Haniger go it seems as inevitable as another losing season. It also remains inevitable that we’ll see plenty of Mariners in the playoffs and even the World Series on other teams. So it will go again as our Mariners continue to be the rest of the leagues AAA affiliate. Indeed they play as a AAA team against true major league teams most games which was once again evident as they were being no hit by a best a number 5 pitcher on a so – so team. Despite several successful seasons many years ago, once again the Mariners make me feel football season can’t arrive soon enough.
One of the casualties of baseball’s slow-rebuild model, for which there are no analytics, is fan alienation, as you articulated.
+1 for the protocol droid reference
CascadiaNow!
I have nothing, nothing to say concerning the Mariners Baseball Club.
But you just made a statement. A fairly important sentiment.
Thanks.
It’s a big fat NOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!! for me. That’s precisely what the Mariners have done for forty years, with awful results. I propose exactly the opposite– give Haniger a multi year extension and lock down that spot with a quality veteran player who is also a plus in the clubhouse. The names Cruz, Tino, Varitek and Tartabull come to mind. A Mike Leake-quality pitcher is nearly always available, and Haniger is FAR too big a price to pay for a 4 or 5 starter.
Seriously. At some point, they have to, you know, try to win. The vaunted Astros teardown and rebuild had them winning* the series in year four. The M’s are in year three since having basically blown the thing up after they tricked us in 2018 of having competence. The A’s are always seemingly competitive with a mix of young guys and solid vets.
That point is next year. And the reality of being persistently outwitted by the raggedy-ass A’s will be an object of humiliation for years beyond ’22.
I chalk the Astros up less to “rebuilding” as I do to superior Latin America scouting and development, something we used to have here back in the day. That’s been gone here for a long time.
I see the pattern too, but the game has changed. Haniger’s assets are obvious, but for how long, given his history? It’s all about pitching, at least until rules are changed. Whatever the Mariners have done in the past is meaningful only to those of us who remember it, not to winning in ’22.
So what is the A’s secret sauce??? Annually the lowest price in baseball yet they acquit themselves very well. Maybe instead of investing in player talent the money should go into tapping their phones!
The sauce largely is Billy Beane, whom the Mariners tried to hire years ago. But when they wouldn’t give him a piece of the team, he said no. The A’s said yes.
And that’s why we can’t have nice things.
The A’s 2021 payroll is bigger than Detroit, Seattle, Tampa Bay, Miami, Baltimore, Pittsburgh and Cleveland.
That’s an anomaly, the A’s have notoriously been bottom dwellers year in and year out. They are the gold star of doing more with less. Due mostly to having one of the best if not the best GM’s in all of baseball. Dipoto so much wants to be Billy Beane.
Seems inevitable, and if we can fleece (Mets) a team (Mets) that needs outfielders so badly that they’ve signed Cameron Maybin (Mets) and get, say, a strong defensive catcher who has hit AL pitching in the recent past (McCann) and a starter with control (Stroman) somehow (it could happen), I’m all for it.
Finally, Torrens is gone to lick his wounds in AAA. Same with Marmolejos, although I suspect someone will pick him up. Brady Lail was a throwaway and will probably make it through waivers. Godoy is fine, but Jacob (Sheriff) Nottingham??? I’d have picked up Jeff Mathis off waivers first to help my pitchers.
A 38-year-old catcher is likely out of knees. But Torrens was bad on a Skip Jutze level.
Skip Jutze and Brian Turang– two of my favorite Mariners.
Ya gotta throw Bob Kearney in there don’t ya? There was a bar close to the Kingdome, don’t think it was Sneakers, certainly wasn’t FX Mc’s. Anyways one bar would sell draft Rainer schooners at the price of Bob’s batting average on that day. I recall a few buddies of mine and I went in on a particular night and beers were 49 cents a glass. Needless to say the game was a blur. I think the bar continued to promote that gig when Dave Valle arrived for awhile. No way you could get away with that now, rightly so. Those were the days.
It was Swannie’s, and the catcher was Dave Valle.
Right. The Sports Babe was relentless on him then.
Yes Valle, I thought it was Bob. I guess that’s what 49 cent beers will do for a guys memory.
You win the Mariners GM of the Day award. Take your award to Dick’s for $0.25 off a Deluxe.
Fries with tartar sauce, and a chocolate shake.
From deep in the left field corner I want to point out Dame Lillard’s sentiment that he wants to win one for the city more than he wants to play on a championship team. Also, what can we get for Seager. Love the guy. He’s having an excellent year. Can’t he help put someone over the top.
Lillard’s style of play won’t lead to a championship, though. He’s Curry-light without the supporting cast and coaching.
Lots of long-lasting stars go title-free for their careers. It’s why teams try to cluster a few stars. Almost worked in OKC.
But, sometimes it’s the team’s number one star that prevents them from winning a title. It’s rare, but, I’ve always felt that it applies to Lillard. Russell Westbrook is another one. I thought the same about Ovechkin before the Caps won it. It’s less pronounced in MLB, but, wasn’t it interesting/odd to see the Gints reel off the first of three titles 3 years AFTER Bonds was gone? Were those teams THAT much better than the Bonds-era editions? Or, were they just more balanced?
I just don’t think hero ball leads to championships. Jordan found that out the hard way in the 1980’s. I think it’s something the “Let Russ Cook” crowd need to keep in mind as well.
Right. Bonds was not Jeter, who made people around him better. The Giants won three titles in five years because of one player. Posey. He helped the staff succeed and set an example with defense and with his bat. Posey is really tearing it up this year and so it’s no surprise S.F. is back in first. The top four starters have a combined ERA close to 2.00.
I think you missed where I said “it’s lees pronounced” in baseball. Meaning: how’s an outfielder supposed to “make his teammates better”? Would you also say the Angels stink because Mike Trout doesn’t make his teammates better? Or, does he get a pass because “he has no help”?
Honestly, I agree with you. An outfielder is stuck. What can Trout do? A catcher can do a whole WHALE of a lot. Maybe Yogi got too little credit. And maybe Dickey and Campanella deserved more. A catcher like Posey is worth $40 million a year…if he’s healthy. Regarding Bonds…really…the guy was intensively self-serving.
I see you’re veering off into commentary about off-the-field Barry as a person. That’s completely separate from on-the-field Barry. If you’re a Giants fan, do you honestly believe he, as an individual, failed to deliver on-the-field and was stealing money? Let’s not confuse him with The Boz here. I don’t give 3 you-know-what’s if a guy’s a jerk in his leisure time. Just give it a full 100 on game day. ‘Roids or not (or, “before and after”, if you like) the guy delivered as a player.
And, there are plenty of fan favourite/media darling types who have most everyone fooled into believing they’re nothing remotely resembling the image of an “intensely self serving” star athlete. But, their teammates often know different.
Bonds did not make the players around him better. It’s hard to argue that Posey did NOT do that. I mean, one of the best starting rotations in baseball is Wood, DeSclafani, Gausman and a washed up Cueto? Really? I’d say Posey had something to do with what they have achieved so far… regarding his calling pitches and handling pitchers. Posey’s slash line is also impacting: something like .366/.440/ .650
You predictably contradicted yourself regarding my Bonds/Trout comparison and question. They’re both outfielders, remember?
And, your Posey comments are precisely why I reasoned with another commenter in this forum that Dan Wilson is in the M’s Hall of Fame and Kyle Seager shouldn’t be.
When Rick Reilly retired, he was asked, “Who are the three worst people you ever cam across in sports? Reilly replied, “Barry Bonds, Barry Bonds and Barry Bonds.”
I don’t think that proves anything. Not to me it doesn’t. But, I understand that plenty of people get their jollies from it.
Careful about analogies between sports. Lots of business differences.
The Nationals won the World Series as soon as Bryce Harper left. I don’t chalk that up to coincidence.
I wouldn’t put Harper in that rare air category, though. He’s good, but, not a Bonds/Trout-type. In fact, I think their pitching had just as much to do with it as the hitting did. I wouldn’t say they won it because he left, but, I don’t think he solely held them back, either. I don’t think we’ll see anything special from the Phillies just because he’s there. Girardi, maybe. But, not Harper.
Seager is hitting .224.
He’s hitting the back of his baseball card, which is quite predictable. Unless a team loses 3 3B in a week, I can’t see him being traded for a bag of peanuts.
His contract is expiring. Some team in need of a left handed bat for a late season push will acquire him at or before the trading deadline.
His history is certainly worthy of salute by the remaining Mariners fans. The question here is whether he has a future in trade.
Man, that makes me feel bad for Seager, which is a strange thing to say about a guy making $18mil/year. His bro is down in LA winning rings while he’s been used up by the baseball Browns (who are decent now). Put him up with Felix Hernandez and Cortez Kennedy as dudes who never sniffed the postseason heroes for inept Seattle franchises.
M’s HoF? Seriously? Coming from a non-Mariners fan who remembers the Buhner years, that seems a bit of a stretch to be putting him in that category, admittedly, without me having looked up the numbers first. Buhner made some major contributions during the franchise’s best years. As did Dan Wilson. That’s why they’re in there, no? What’s Seager contributed to?
My question is, do Mariners fans – and local baseball media – REALLY believe he’s been one of the franchise’s all-time greats? I don’t see it.
Seager has had zero around him, except for Felix early on. Buhner had Griffey, ARod, Moyer, Cameron, Freddie, Kaz, Wilson, Boone, Olerud and several others.
“Looking at the numbers first”….In the 44 years of the M’s franchise, Seager is…4th in WAR, 5th in WAR Defense, 5th in games played, 4th in at bats, 5th in runs scored, 4th in hits, 5th in total bases, 4th in home runs, 4th in RBI’s, 6th in walks, 4th in extra base hits and 5th in sacrifice flies. You can guess that the people in front of him are named Griffey, ARod, Edgar and Ichiro. It also puts him ahead, in most categories, of Dan Wilson and Alvin Davis, both in the M’s Hall of Fame.
Wilson’s likely in because he was behind the plate when the franchise was one of the best in the AL and had the pitching to match. Davis is called “Mr. Mariner” for a reason beyond his numbers. I’m looking at Seager – albeit casually – and just not seeing one of the team’s all-timers there.
I’ll have to take your word as an actual Mariner fan for it, but, I honestly don’t see it.
Well said.
OBP is under .300. Not excellence in my definition.
Hey, you’re not an M’s fan, remember?
Touche! Ha-ha! This really made me laugh! Spot on. Thank you, my friend!
I don’t want to question Dame’s sincerity, but it’s simply a smart thing to say. I hope he stays in Stumptown for the duration.
Seager is producing at below MLB 3B average, although the MLB average is dropping faster than Seager.
Without player loyalty what does a franchise become, nothing more than some owner’s ego trip. Part of why people remain fans is because they feel a personal connection to their “stars.” How many Cleveland fans feel a personal connection to James? Lillard came to Portland in the JailBlazers aftermath. This town was pretty down on the franchise. He revitalized Rip City.
As for Seager, he is a notoriously slow starter yet he is up there amongst the leaders in home runs. How many games does he win with his glove? How clutch is his hitting?
Not everyone likes their favourite team exclusively because of the name on the back of the jersey, though. And, is it really the obligation of pro athletes to cultivate “a personal connection” with fans? That’s as slippery a slope as expecting them to be “role models”. Fans love to moan about a lack of “loyalty” from star athletes who switch teams, while praising those who supposedly suffer in silence by staying. Personally, I’m not impressed by player “loyalty”, and don’t let it keep me awake at night if a star athlete takes full advantage of reaching Unrestricted Free Agency status. Unfortunately, I don’t believe all sports fans can say the same. By the same token, it’s the Jamal Adams, Jalen Ramsey, James Harden’s, and even Ray Bourque’s (who’s always been given a pass by the media for leaving Boston before UFA status) of the sports world who I think should be the target of fan ire instead.
I’ve got no beef with a pampered star athlete who honours the full term of a signed contract with their long-term franchise and accepts an offer elsewhere in the offseason. It’s the pampered star athlete who angle and pouts their way out the door via trade whilst still under contract that I can’t respect. Including Aaron Rodgers, if it happens.
Jerry Seinfeld says we root for laundry.
Simple, but true.
Isn’t that how it should be, though? Like Lasorda said: it’s the name across the front of the jersey, not the back. The last time I went against that was when the Sonics traded Kemp. I hoped like hell they’d lose that first round series to Minnesota in ’98 because of the way the fans and local media helped run him out of town. Suddenly everyone was an expert on alcoholism. Other than that. I’ve rooted for the same teams in each of the 4 major pro leagues for decades, regardless who’s on the roster or how they got there. Well, 3 now, as of 2008.
Nobody ran Kemp out of town. He wasn’t mature enough to handle the pressure of stardom, as is often the case with many young athletes. Easy money, booze, drugs and women always victimize the unprepared. I feel bad for the downturn in his career, but casualties of the cultural pressure are much greater in number than the relative few that survive and flourish. There are 10 Kemps for every Lebron.
I’ve never felt he was any more of a jerk on his way out of town than Randy was at the time. But, I certainly don’t recall the local media portrayals of the 2 reflecting that. In fact, it was largely why 1 was fitted with the proverbial Black Hat upon his return with Cleveland, whilst the other was given a welcome upon his first post-trade appearance in Seattle usually reserved for conquering heroes. I’ve never been convinced either narrative was 100% accurate.
Each player’s circumstances were a little different. Frankly I don’t recall Johnson’s reception with AZ. I know SEA and HOU didn’t play in ’98. They were both genius physical talents who felt they were underpaid, and fans’ responses typically fall along a broad spectrum — the exception being A-Rod.
2001 ASG
You’ve built the proper crust to be a modern sports fan. But to be upper crust, you have to accept the manipulations of players while under contract. The franchises are no different when they approach the end of their leases with publicly owned facilities. Two or three years out, they begin to cajole and complain to leverage their advantage as monopoly operators.
It’s bidness, as in every other industry.
Player loyalty pretty much ended with the adoption of free agency in each sport. It’s great when players stay through two or three contracts, but business comes first.
As we know well in Seattle, even franchises aren’t loyal to their cities.
I try to stay out of rabbit holes but since we are talking about wonderland I’ll persist. I can’t think of anyone whose opinion about all things sports i respect more than yours. Recently you haven’t been doing to bad on some relevant social matters as well. My point in citing Lillard, wasn’t so much about Lillard or the Blazers as it is about the impact player loyalty on the durability of a fan base has. Here is Lillard in a recent interview I found today on Yardbarker (hope that’s enough of a citation,)
“People love to hear, ‘Oh, this guy might want out of here or out of there.’ I’ve constantly mentioned what my commitment to Portland is,” Lillard said. “I don’t think I need to keep going in on that. But over the course of a season, everybody gets frustrated, you know? And I’m not a person who fakes it for nobody. Not the media. Not my teammates. Not the fans. Not for nobody.”
That is who he is and who he is makes a difference here in Portland.
What you say about the impact Free Agency has had on all major sports is true when viewed from a certain angle. Look whats happening now in College sports (fer cripe sakes, as you are want to say.) Still if we want to head out of left field out onto Waveland Ave, let’s posit that the problems with free agency as it pertains to fan durability is the failure of the greedy owners to create a structure that for example allows (requires?) any owner to match the best deal any player can obtain elsewhere. Those who are carpet baggers can still go where they want. Those are more like my childhood hero Ernie Banks get to prove their loyalty. Over…
Banks was a victim of baseball’s reserve system that unfairly locked players onto teams by denying market movement. That also coincided with your childhood, when you and all of us form our views of what’s normal. When the reserve clause was eliminated in collective bargaining in 1976, the sports world changed, for better or worse.
Your sentiments for Lillard are understandable, but the number of fans who know that different time dwindle daily. The sports industry is much more fair to its athletes than it used to be. Players and owners are OK with it, because most fans most of the time are into spectacle rather than into the people providing it. The industry’s TV revs prove the point.
I don’t enjoy bubble-busting, but times change.
Do NOT trade Haniger. And I’m not even an M’s fan.
Nobody likes the idea. But logic has to prevail, yes?
Trading their best hitter on a team batting under .200 is completely illogical.
it’s only illogical of you care about winning in ’21. The Mariners don’t care.
That’s up to Stanton.
About three readers will understand that.
As a Dodgers fan, I was actually scheming with a co-worker in 2018 about how they could get him.
And finally Art, SURPRISE! the Mariners are a very bad baseball team yet again, with poor front office and on field management. They haven’t been truly entertaining since the Figgins, Wakamatsu, Lopez dugout fight I was privileged to have an amazing line of site into from the third base line. No continuity, constant lineup shifting, that doesn’t work except on paper. And their latest strategy is to be plate disciplined like the A’s but to take it to the next level by not actually swinging ever. Moneyball of the Damned. The next sound you hear will be the team getting the radio hacks to start saying the problem is that Hanniger isn’t the clubhouse leader the team expected him to be. Even Root , who is greedy, got screwed in this debacle. M’s, Just admit you don’t know what you are doing and never will, send the good players somewhere they don’t waste their career. Free Seager your bastards! This is why they should bring the Soccer concept of relegation for teams to baseball.
As is the case most of the time, talent wins out, and most of the Mariners’ top talents are still too young. They whiffed on Vogelbach/Long/Mallex Smith, and desperately need Evan White to come through. They have keeper kids in Kelenic, Lewis, Crawford, France, Dunn and Sheffield. They traded away Zunino and Nola, and now will be tempted to rush Raleigh, as they have Gilbert, both out of big-league desperation.
Every club hypes its youngsters, Mariners are no worse or better.